suspekt360

For what it's worth.

I have never dynoed my car nor run it at the drag strip. I personally feel both 0-60 and 1/4 times-speed do not adequately reveal the beast that beats within the CLS6.

I have driven/owned many cars and experienced many different forms of power delivery (boosted, large displacement, high strung,etc).

I can't part with the CL because I have come to the realization that I am quite literally ADDICTED to the way the J32A2/6speed combo delivers power; almost like a turbine that accrues speed at a ridiculous rate as the revs and gears climb. I swear, the ECU seems to release more power in 4th than in any of the gears prior to it.

Now for the point of my thread.

How do I say this correctly???

I came across 2 high power BMW vehicles recently in a setting that allowed for some really solid redline runs from about 65mph too a speed that made any question of difference in power very clear.

None of this is scientific or backed with empirical evidence. This is just my opinion knowing that 2 good drivers went WOT through a few gears in a safe setting.

This will let owners on this forum get a sense of the potential output of a CL that is in good mechanical condition with some key bolt-ons (see sig). Some will call BS on this and that is fine.

MY POINT is that if you divide out the power-weight ratios of the 2 BMW's below:

M3 = 3,710/414 = 8.96lb's per HP
X5M = 5,332/555 = 9.60lb's per HP

Conclusion - A CLS6 with bolt-ons and good mechanical condition will make somewhere in the neighbourhood of 9.0-10.0lb's per HP. I also will add that the ability of the J32A2 to windup and accelerate through the gears is part of the reason it can accelerate at speeds that its measured HP dont seem to backup. Lastly, a TEST PIPE and attention to the mandrel bends at critical points in the exhaust path seem to make more difference than one would think.

#1
2010 M3 Sedan
- The sedan was unable to pass or make any gains during our runs. I want to say I started to pull away very very slightly but I will leave it at, we remained even the entire runs. I am sure that at speeds achievable in 6th gear the M3 would have superior gearing to allow it to run to speeds where the CL is gearing limited to a lower level.... i will leave it at that
- Shock would be the best way to describe both drivers' reactions.
- I honestly expected to hang with the M3 for a bit and then at some point watch it start walking on me. It never happened. It was very even.

Specs of M3 Sedan (as per Insideline):
Vehicle: 2009 BMW M3 Sedan
Odometer: 1,166
Date: 04/21/09
Driver: Josh Jacquot
Price: $67,370

Specifications:
Drive Type: rear-wheel drive
Transmission Type: 6-speed manual
Engine Type: V8
Displacement (cc / cu-in): 3,999 (244 cu-in)
Redline (rpm): 8,400
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 414 @ 8,300
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 295 @ 3,900
Brake Type (front): Ventilated disc
Brake Type (rear): Ventilated disc
Steering System: Speed proportional power steering
Suspension Type (front): MacPherson strut
Suspension Type (rear): Multi link
Tire Size (front): 245/40ZR18
Tire Size (rear): 265/40ZR18
Tire Brand: Michelin
Tire Model: Pilot Sport PS2
Tire Type: Summer Performance
Wheel Size: 18-by-8.5 inches front -- 18-by-9.5 inches rear
Wheel Material (front/rear): Alloy
As tested Curb Weight (lb): 3,710

BMW M3 Sedan 0 - 30 (sec): 2.0 2.1
0 - 45 (sec): 3.4
0 - 60 (sec): 4.8
0 - 75 (sec): 6.7
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 12.9 @ 109.8
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 4.5
30 - 0 (ft): 26.0
60 - 0 (ft): 105
Braking Rating: Excellent
Slalom (mph): 70.0
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.90
Handling Rating: Excellent



#2
2011 X5M
- very similar story to above however the X5M was slower and I was able to pull on it in the same type of setting as above.
- This was repeated at least 3 times with same result.

Specs of X5M (as per Insideline):
Track Test Results
0-45 mph (sec.) 3.1
0-60 mph (sec.) 4.5
0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) 4.2
0-75 mph (sec.) 6.6
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 12.8 @ 108.5
Braking, 30-0 mph (ft.) 29
60-0 mph (ft.) 116
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 63.5
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.91
Sound level @ idle (dB) 42.2
@ Full throttle (dB) 77.4
@ 70 mph cruise (dB) 61.5

Drivetrain
Drive type Longitudinally mounted front-engine all-wheel drive
Engine type Twin-scroll turbocharged direct-injected 90-degree V8
Displacement (cc/cu-in) 4,395cc (268 cu-in)
Block/head material Aluminum/aluminum
Valvetrain DOHC, four valves per cylinder, variable valve timing
Compression ratio (x:1) 9.3
Redline (rpm) 7,000
Horsepower (hp @ rpm) 555 @ 6,000
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm) 501 @ 1,500

Dimensions & Capacities
Curb weight, mfr. claim (lbs.) 5,368
Curb weight, as tested (lbs.) 5,332

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Only reason your conclusions seemed to make sense.
From a stop or low speed roll, Both cars would murder a CLS6 with bolt on's.
Gearing differences & power differences
By the time you hit 3rd gear both cars would have pulled on you & you would never be able to catch up.
0-45 mph (sec.) 3.1
0-60 mph (sec.) 4.5
0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) 4.2
&
0 - 45 (sec): 3.4
0 - 60 (sec): 4.8

A CLS6 with bolt ons does not do below 5 sec 0-60 runs. More like 5.4 or so.

suspekt360

Yeah, I dont disagree with you. The CLS6 is not a stoplight monster and does not do well from a dig. The FWD layout does it no favours in this regard.

However, starting 'on cam' in 2nd gear, I think it would pull numbers that belie a mid-13 second car. And this is what I love about the car. I am not interested in racing anyone especially at a light. But put the CLS6 against most machinery at speeds where traction is eliminated from the equation, and the acceleration is breathtaking.

With 135,000 miles on the original clutch with an engine design 10 years old, hanging with high power M cars at highway speeds (and pulling on some) is quite a testament to the engineering prowess of Honda.

That was really my point. I have no illusions of superiority to other current cars; I just know the CLS6 is great peice of machinery.

AARONSredTYPE-S

i agree with both, i have beat the crap outta v8 mustangs and 350z's and even 2 vettes(was close till 5th and they pulled) from a roll around 30-40.. if this car had better ways to put down the power initially, it would be a decent 1/4 car. But it being slightly heavy and fwd and not the torqiest motor, then we get smoked by decent drivers from a dig...

all around, cl-s6 is still the best all around car for the money and i think thats why we all have one...

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

BS on the vettes, you stayed with a vette at the most for 2 secs before it pulled hard on you

AARONSredTYPE-S

on a c5 vette?
dude im 31 years old, i dont need to bull shit anybody man...thanks

TheWeez

Even from a roll, both of those cars destroy the CLS. You've got a history of believing that the CLS is some kind of magic vehicle. Keep dreaming, the CLS gets walked on by both of those vehicles. Hell, my old SHO before the supercharger went on would have put up a good fight against it with just a 220HP V6. It's a 8 year old car with FWD and it's a heavy pig.

ZCL

Thanks for the laugh today!

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Ive taken down a C5 non-Z06 before from 40-~90mph. Non-Z06 C5s are rated at 350hp, which is about where I am at the crank. Its entirely possible, but I think a minor bolt on CL would have a harder time of it.

But yea, an M3 and an X5M? Those drivers were probably messing with you. While the CL makes enough power to run 13s but is limited by FWD, the M3 and X5M run mid 12s. We're talking big leagues here while the CL is stuck in the minors.

ZCL

Pulley and exhaust work = run with mid 12 second cars.

TheWeez

Exactly. But his mandrel bends give that extra power.

TheWeez

That's right, knowing how fast your car is would never tell you how fast your car is.

suspekt360

Wow... I have a history of believing it's magic? WAFI

That's cool if that's what you think. I presented a story as factually correct as possible. I choose to stay with the CLS because of the pleasure it provides. It has many drawbacks, but on the whole, great car with aural sensations hard to find in any car at any price.

I enjoy it and I know what it can and can't do. Fact is, from 65mph to at least 130, the X5M could not keep up. Not bashing BMW, not saying it is better, not saying I would beat one from a dead stop. From a high speed roll, the CLS is in it's element and holds it own. Thats all I said.

Not sure why you felt the need to come on a CL forum in a CL post and call it a FWD pig.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Because thats exactly what it is?

TheWeez

I'm just happy the highway roll racing faggot crew made it over here. Hopefully we can meat up and let them show us their vtaks. The coolest part about roll racing is when you get shut the fuck up poser ricer roll race queers. Any sub 2800lb car that makes 500whp is fucking stupid because its undrivable on a real track, which you'll never see because you don't have a real job. I highly recommend that you make a plan for your life, or you're going to be a virgin for all eternity. You should start by moving out of your grandmother's basement. Next I recommend an extreme amount of cardio, and its probably not a bad idea to buy a razor and cut off the internet connection. You should also probably stop masturbating so much with that death grip if you're ever going to get you're baby dick half hard at the first sight of a woman you may possibly have a chance of communicating with. However, most importantly, don't get your hopes up because I'm pretty much everything every woman on earth wants, you're the compromise. I'm strong, sexy, intelligent, hung, affluent, cultured, and I'll be the one you hate, the one you want to be so bad, the one you'll thank in 5-years when you get there and look back on this post and thank me for showing you the things that you daddy never did. I believe in you son, its time to be a man

suspekt360

You guys are all hilarious.

I told a story. It's what happened, draw your own conclusions.

I own a CL and told CL related story. That's the point of this forum right?

You want to laugh at me, that's fine.

From 50-150, it puts up numbers not reflected on 0-60 or 1/4 times. It puts up numbers similar to high 12 second cars as traction and inertia are more mitigated.

And yes, dyno's are for your ego. If you need to see a line cross some magical number like 300, power to you. I know what my Camaro SS LS1 does in the same circumstance and yeah, I think the CLS would outrun it from 50mph to 150mph.

All the the hate about this post is a joke. Take it for what it was, a story.

WAFI's



I

TheWeez

Your CL-S is not doing 150mph.

Yeah it is a story.... a made up one. That or they weren't really racing you.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

What. The. Fuck.

Ill think of it more as a fairy tale.

suspekt360

Fair enough. Civicdrivr, you done alot with this car so ain't going to argue with you.

Thanks everyone for your comments. CLS rocks!

2Fast4you

iTrader: (1)

someone has some problems

enjoyed reading your story man don't listen to all the haters

Aloe

They werent even racing. silly ricer lololol

TurboSupra

Hey guys, I (we) have no reason to believe this race is not legit. Here's why. I once had a 96 Supra TT BPU+++ dyno'd at 457hp. It was never run on a track so I never knew exactly how fast it was, but it certainly was not fast enough.

Back in 2004, I came across a White CLS6 with Neuspeed springs and Comptech exhaust AFAIK, but I will leave it at that. He revved at me on the highway (the aural sensations from his cams were orgasmic) and we raced twice from ~55mph all the way to 90mph. He not only pulled on me, he ran away. Both Times. I was made a believer that day. I will just leave it at that.

Sold my Supra the following week and upgraded to a slightly used CLS6 (rare, 1 of 2700). The comfort and conveniences, the power on CAM on VTEC is something that few people are capable of handling due to torque steer. Have not been able to kill a ZR1 or BMW AMG cars, like these other monsters but have been able to easily take down modified Civics and a couple of modded Scion TC's with the TRD Superchargers. Also, let me just say that racing from a stop is not very safe and I only try to keep my racing on the highway where there are less pedestrians. That's all I have to say about that.

Mad props to Suspekt. Keep showing them that beast!
Rock on CLS6!!

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

JBlueCLS6

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for trolling! I hear the 2004 CLS were extremely limited. and LOL at OP thinking he can make up for well over 100HP and 2 second difference in the 1/4 mile with a few boltons.

AARONSredTYPE-S

i think this thread has gotten outta hand...
like has been said on here earlier, this is an Acura thread, but we all no within reason what our cars can do...sooo, lets talk about cars and not about being strong, sexy and hung...lol

TheWeez

Yes we all know what our cars can do and even supercharged, you aren't taking a either the M3 or X5M.

AARONSredTYPE-S

I CONCUR...LOL
SUSPEKT, You have a good looking car man..keep it up

suspekt360

I'm loving the controversy. Apart from the personal attack that speaks more to the individual than the topic, I love the feedback.

Ignoring the M3 for a moment and just carrying on with another related tangent in this thread, the X5M does have an Achilles heel that perhaps I exploited.

That being the combination of:
1. Being off boost initially, and
2. No aid of launch control or boost build-up to aid offline performance
3. Mass @ 5,332 lbs

I see why there is skepticism and that's fine. I would have it too.

But the X5M just could not move it's 5,300lb's with authority. Being out of the sweet spot of it's powerband @ 65mph and coping with that much mass left it flat footed REPEATEDLY. It's really not that surprising.

TurboSupra

Thanks! He had just started his lease at the beginning of that year so he said it was actually an '04. It's build date was probably in 2003 if you want to get technical about it, but since he bought it in 04' because it was sitting on the showroom for so long, it was probably one of the last ones built. Silver too. One of the rarest models. Let's just leave it at that.

Also, can't your 335 make close to 100HP with a few boltons like a JB3/Dinan Flash? The J32 responds very well to mods. Let's not forget he had a test pipe with extra attention. In a high speed roll, the CLS6 can hang with just about anyone. Except maybe an NSX with similar mods due to the lightness factor. Acura > *

TurboSupra

Exactly. With all that weight and boost lag (ugh supra) the X5M is dead in the water with the CLS ready to take it down.
Let's compare a few magazine stats. 1/4 mile trap speed.

Stock 2001 CLS 1/4 mile: 14.8 @ 96.5 via MotorTrend
(this is an auto and an '01 so obviously a huge discrepancy)
Supposedly Stock 2011 BMW X5M 1/4 mile: 12.8s @ 108.5mph via Edmunds
Very close.

add in that massive weight, boost lag, etc, etc, and have a more aerodynamic CLS6 on cam w/ vtec with 3 thousand less pounds go head to head. we've got a race folks.
or should i say kill?

we've all seen that civic hatch (cheesetoad) with just a few bolt-ons run down a viper gts, not sure why this is such a controversy.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

Yeah that is what I am talking about your car has a 3.5 with probably 50 or more hp than whoever said he was staying with a vette with bolt ons, I just don't see that happening.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Ok, now Im pretty damn sure youre trolling.

JBlueCLS6

iTrader: (2)

OP, you are not going to even out the playing field when the car is quicker to the 1/4 by right around 2 seconds and 10mph faster when it crosses the line.

It doesn't matter when you started the race, just look at the dyno of a stock X6M which has the same powerplant.



Over 400 ft/lbs throughout the entire band (Around twice your output and same for horsepower). You Really.... Really want to cut the crap now?

the new CL owner crowd.

AARONSredTYPE-S

STOCK C5'S ONLY RUN 13.4-13.6, civics' car is as fast or faster than that, so from a roll he should really do well..

i was talking 3rd and 4th gear we were close, then 5th they pull away, so whats so crazy about that again?

in fact, last time i was at the track, i was beating a '99 vette auto, 3/4 track down the 1/4 mile. Ask reese(another member on here) the kid ran a 13.9 and i ran a 14.2

anyways, great flippin thread this is...

suspekt360

Listen asshole. I make my living based on honesty and truth.
I told a story. Its what went down. I have zero incentive or reason to come on here (after 8 years of membership and ownership of a CL) to try and make up some BS just to impress an online community. I have just over 70 posts in 8 years which tells you that I am not in the habit of wasting my time on here or posting for the sake of hearing myself.

I qualified my statements over and over and provided as much information as I could.

You can tell me I am mistaken but the folks on here calling into question my personal integrity or truthfulness of my story can eat a dick.

I knew when I posted (and mentioned it in the original post) that some would call BS and that's fine. But the lack of class shown here is pathetic.

Maybe the other drivers were toying with me. Maybe.

Be respectful and comment with some degree of decorum. Half the comments in this post have been just pathetic.

I don't get the hatefulness for my comments. It's just a story of 65mph-1xxmph against 2 cars that have a lot of pedigree. I know the CLS stunned the drivers that day and the Thumbs Up I got from both when all was said and done was all I needed to know.

JBlueCLS6

iTrader: (2)

LMAO!!!

You Mad?

I'm an asshole because I provided clear evidence to refute your claims? Okay, cool!

The majority of your claims are false

You stated "A CLS6 with bolt-ons and good mechanical condition will make somewhere in the neighbourhood of 9.0-10.0lb's per HP"

03 CL-S 6 speed
260 HP (even though this should be in the 25X range due to new standards) @ 3446 = 13.25 pounds / HP

Lets just say, with your mods you have 300 crank HP which I think the majority would agree
3446/300 = 11.49 pounds / hp

So how much power should a CL need to put create a ratio of 9.5:1

Answer is 362.73.

This you are NOWHERE NEAR making

CH46ESeaKnight

Let me guess, you are a used car salesman a lawyer or a politician? LMAO!

I won't even bother with talking about how you THINK your car held up against a new M3. I'll bet there are two drivers over in the Beemer forum clowning the shit of of some guy who they made think he could keep up with them in his POS Honda! (And yes, in my opinion compared to a new M3 and X5M the CL6 is a fat pig pos honda)

Anyways I wanted to ask you how you came up with 9.0-10.0lb's per HP with a bolt on CLS6? The way I see it is a bolt on CLS6 should make about 290 hp. Yeah yeah whatever on the + or - 5 to 10 HP. So at 290 that is only 12.1lb per hp. NOT 9.0-10.0. And if we go with 300 hp that still 11.7lb per hp. But seeing how distorted your story is I can see how you might think a bolt on CLS6 would make 340hp. Not including any stickers of course.

I used 3520 for a weight, I know thats close to the CLS6 weight but not exact. I'm sure someone will try to nit pick that! (Jacob)


Amazing how nobody ever thinks to get a video of thier CLS doing the impossible.

And how did you just happen to pull this off?

I came across 2 high power BMW vehicles recently in a setting that allowed for some really solid redline runs from about 65mph too a speed that made any question of difference in power very clear.

Seems like something like this would have been orchestrated, and someone would have thought to bring a camera.

CH46ESeaKnight

WOW, you sold a 96 TT Supra to upgrade to a CLS? HAHAHA wow I think you are the.......... ah never mind!

And Kudos for beating modded Civics and Scions! Cause thoes are almost as fast as a new M3 right? What was the point of that statment anyways. It did not seem to help your argument at all!

JBlueCLS6

iTrader: (2)

LOL. that kids trolling dude

suspekt360

The results don't make sense. Agreed.

Yes, the CL does not make 9 or 10 HP-per-lb. Agreed.

I choose to keep it because it is more than the sum of it's stats.

I would have long ago digressed on this post but I am the OP and need to answer for what I posted for my own conscious, not any need to win an argument.

I think I have posted fairly and without bias.

Maybe the BMW drivers are laughing. That's fine.

But the posters here trying to make this a negative post are sad. Call me out and say so.

CLS6 is a great car. Regardless of my means which I will not comment on, this car will always be in my garage. The J32A2 is just a sweet motor. I have enjoyed it much more than my past LT1 or current LS1 powered cars.

And no, I am not a lawyer, politician, or salesman.

I think your all giving the X5M way too much credit and I am a big BMW M fan. I think out on the highway, a SRT8 Cherokee or ML63 might just whoop it's fat ass