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FINALLY! Fan issues resolved! After much contemplation, I decided on front mounted cooling fans. This, of course, required me to rid the core support of the condensing coil but knowing what sort of heat this bad boy produces I knew that the radiator itself should have highest priority (in regards to competing with AC accessories) and give it prime real estate. As the picture entails, the fans are sitting at an ideal position which enables them to pull in air from the least obstructed area of the bumper cover. Because the intercoolers bottom is mounted slightly below the radiators bottom, the fans were set a little higher than usual to prevent (or greatly reduce) any "hot air" ducting coming off the charge air. The bottom of the fans are literally sitting right up against the top of the intercooler and there is absolutely NO additional room left in the core support where the condenser once sat. By strategically placing air ducts and aluminum sheet, I should be able to add a considerable more amount of airflow to vital areas to help rid all heat exchangers & engine bay of unwanted thermal-saturation. I had some pretty intense issues before with this and I've thought long and hard about what I'll do to make sure it's greatly reduced this time. The j-series, like any other forced induction motor, is prone to knock when heat soak begins to take its toll under the hood so this is why some of you are wondering why I go to such extreme measures on thermal management for this build.
So after the fans/radiator were shoehorned into their positions, I proceeded to a test fire by topping off the coolant and filling the engine with fully synthetic Motul. Ran the motor for about 20 minuted letting the stat and fans cycle several times while checking for any leaks or other problems. Everything checked out perfectly and let me say when it fires on cold start ignition retard, DAYUM this thing crackles nicely! It was literally rattling all of shops bay doors and my nearby business neighbors were all stepping out of the doors and watching as if I'd set off a nuke. Lmao.
Tomorrow I will run the AFR gauges wiring so they are functional then hopefully get some tuning done Saturday morning. I'll get some better pics and maybe a video of the work out in sun light if everything permits for everyone to see. All of the tuning I've done for overrun on the NA setup will remain but I may have to detune the fuel slightly to protect the turbo and not overheat it. But I do plan on making this straight piped, boosted freak blow some flames out of the back for sure! I'm pretty damn excited I must say and am beginning to feel like a little kid with this money pit of mine. I plan on taking things easy for the first week or so (hey, I might!) and get some confidence built up in her reliability so she can reclaim her "DD" status and allow me to retire this fat pig MDX I've been having to drive for the past two weeks now!
Posted the above pics because they were just great shots. At this point, I pretty much have it all finished. Have been tuning it since Friday night and have maybe another 1-2 columns of AFR's to dial in before I can safely do some WOT pulls. Right now, the gates are mechanically limited at 5.9lbs of boost and because I do not have a boost controller, I must use creative tuning techniques to make small, incremental steps in boost pressures while tuning which seems to be working out pretty good. I have noticed an old friend that seems to have revisited now that the boost is turned back on....and this brings me to my next photo below:
Above is an area masked off by tape that I will be strategically boring several large holes in an attempt at increasing airflow across both the intercooler and (mainly) the radiator. Yup, you guessed it, her ECT's are climbing! I knew that this would more than likely come back to haunt me as it was by far my biggest issue the last two times running boost. This time I will find a solution even if it means going to the EXTREME. It's mainly on slower roads where airflow is much less and if the temps start climbing, they just barely begin to drop if I'm parked with cooling fans roaring in 65-70 degree weather. So I know that this is definitely something that must be resolved by Spring.
Here are a few things I will try and do:
- Install my oil cooler setup w/thermostat and remote oil filter kit. Not really sure what my oil temps are at this point but if my ECT is creeping to around 205, the oil temp is probably another 30-50 degrees above this.
- Fab up some custom aluminum sheets and install them on the bottom and top of the core support to reduce spillage from the radiator. Also, add some more ventilation holes (hence the picture above) in the bumper cover and add ducting to channel extra airflow into the radiator fans and shroud....remember, they are mounted on the front so they actually block more air especially when driving slower speeds.
- Last but not least, add extra heat shield or insulation between the turbo manifold/downpipe and the rear of the radiator itself. Both of these exhaust components literally within inches (the downpipe less than one inch!) of the radiator and I'm sure that they are heavily radiating massive amount of heat to the coolant inside the radiator thereby decreasing the radiators efficiency. Though I'm not exactly sure yet what I'll be using on these pieces with I know that the better the insulating properties are, the better chance I have in eliminating quite possibly the biggest culprit to my cooling issue.
do you not have enough room to do a push and pull configuration? I think the fan do not have a lot of static flow vs OEM. So it is very hard for it to push air through the fins because it is getting reflected back.
Those fans just don't work all that well in my experience look for a curved blade fan in the 2000+ cfm range, I don't think they will work even if you took your bumper off, I tried dual 14 inch Mishimoto fans and they just didn't have the power to cool the car off after making a WOT throttle pull and coming to a stop, put a Derale single I think it was 2400 CFM and zero problems even in 100 degree weather (with ac on) I just don't think the Mishimoto fans move the air they are advertising (CFM)
Car looks great bet that boost is nice to feel again
do you not have enough room to do a push and pull configuration? I think the fan do not have a lot of static flow vs OEM. So it is very hard for it to push air through the fins because it is getting reflected back.
You are 100% correct in saying that the fans do not/can not push airflow into the radiator as easily as they can pull it. In fact, I switched the polarity on the fans just of curiosity to see what sort of difference it makes and I'd say it's they easily flow 50% LESS when trying to push through. However, I could think of two even greater problems leaving it as a puller with them mounted up front:
- At higher speeds, the fans airflow outwards would cause a stalemate with the natural airflow coming inwards.
- The fans would be pulling very hot air from the engine bay which is not just being heated by the engine alone but also (as previously mentioned in my last post) the downpipe and the front manifold.
Lmao, UGH. So undoubtedly I decided to stick with the push setup for now...
Originally Posted by UTAH TSX
Those fans just don't work all that well in my experience look for a curved blade fan in the 2000+ cfm range, I don't think they will work even if you took your bumper off, I tried dual 14 inch Mishimoto fans and they just didn't have the power to cool the car off after making a WOT throttle pull and coming to a stop, put a Derale single I think it was 2400 CFM and zero problems even in 100 degree weather (with ac on) I just don't think the Mishimoto fans move the air they are advertising (CFM)
Car looks great bet that boost is nice to feel again
Another 100% correct post. Yeah, these piss ass little Mishimoto fans are as about as cheap as a box fan sitting in front of the radiator. You are dead on. The fan blade pitch is....um, nearly FLAT. Funny thing is I checked the amp draws on both with one pulling and the other pushing. The one pushing air into the radiator registered 6.9 amps. The one pulling (greatest flow) was only 7.3 amps. Then, checked my 2010 MDX fan with AC on, 11.6 amps and though it was maybe 2-3" larger in diameter, it seemed like it was putting out three times the flow!
I'll take your experience and suggestion as a bid of decision confidence and shop for some better fans. Thank you for your input on the matter.
I installed 2 12" Mishimoto fans on my girlfriend's Legacy wagon fro clearance purposes as I am considering throwing an H6 in it. This summer, the temperature needle would climb to well above half when driving around town.
I suppose there's a give and take relationship with wanting slimmer fans. You gain some clearance, but the motor size is much smaller than factory and is not able to operate them nearly as fast.
Have you thought about adding hood venting instead of opening up bumper more?
Air naturally moves from areas of high pressure to low pressure. Venting hood will lower pressure under hood and help pull air through radiator and IC.
Using aluminum sheet to focus flow where you want will help.
I talked more in depth about it in my thread after reading lots of aerodynamic books etc.
I also noticed it looks like you have hood propped up at rear. That will only really work at expelling heat when the car is sitting still.
That area by windshield is a high pressure zone. At speed you will be sucking that high pressure air into your lower pressure engine bay.
That higher pressure in engine bay will make your radiator and IC work less efficiently and also cause excess drag.
That is why you never see a racecar with its hood propped open, but they always have hood vents. You want the vents in the front half of hood in lower pressure zone.
I would recommend removing hood gap and installing hood vents.
Last edited by brian6speed; 02-15-2016 at 11:21 PM.
I suppose there's a give and take relationship with wanting slimmer fans. You gain some clearance, but the motor size is much smaller than factory and is not able to operate them nearly as fast.
There's definitely a compromise, yeah. It's just things are already shoehorned to the max in the engine bay which makes it almost impossible to use a fan worth a shit.
Originally Posted by thisaznboi88
The only time I hear that slim fan work well is if they have a shroud to increase/ direct air flow
Haha, yup. I've used aftermarket cooling fans on several cars I've had in the past and I was thinking the first time I ever heard these fans kick on with a whisper quiet whir, I wondered if these things are REALLY pushing their advertised 950 cfm's.
Originally Posted by brian6speed
For fan brands, I like Flex-a-lite and SPAL.
Have you thought about adding hood venting instead of opening up bumper more?
Air naturally moves from areas of high pressure to low pressure. Venting hood will lower pressure under hood and help pull air through radiator and IC.
Using aluminum sheet to focus flow where you want will help.
I talked more in depth about it in my thread after reading lots of aerodynamic books etc.
Though my hood is not vented on top, it is spaced in the rear by approx 1.25". When parked and engine running, I can see the heat ventilating at the base of my windshield and if a hold my hand across the cowling, I can also feel a hot draft with questionable force. Because the ECT's are lowering at higher vehicle speeds (normally above 45mph+), I'm assuming it's more than likely an airflow issue and not a cooling system heat capacity problem.
I did manage to add some custom heat shielding a made today on the downpipe. It was basically a two ply DEI firewall shielding that sandwiched DEI lava sheet. Seems like it may have helped but need more datalogging time before I can say for sure. I took some temperature measurements after a short 10 minute drive today on the turbo manifold and downpipe and it registered 242/392 respectively. This indicated the downpipe would be radiating the most heat into the radiator so this is why I targeted it first.
After a short trip to the store to grab some things, I realized my check engine light came on half way there after a slight stint of low boost and so I babied it back to the house as the AFR gauge for the rear bank was indicating slightly lean. FlashPro retrieved a code (p0135) with a definition of bank 1 sensor 1 (rear bank) oxygen sensor malfunction. Because this is essentially a brand new oxygen sensor that I bought brand new back in February online, I should be able to get it exchanged under warranty. Thankfully I have a few spares at the shop I can use until the replacement part arrives. I noticed the AFR gauge for the rear bank reading slightly off (during closed throttle or very low load part throttle) from the front and didn't think anything of it but now realize what was going on.
So many damn things to keep watch of and monitor during this initial tuning that it can be somewhat overwhelming at times but I strangely enjoy this part the most? Something about taking a motor running forced induction and telling an ECU how to make produce massive power SAFELY that I really love doing. If my current line of work in doing automotive electrical work was somehow no longer appealing to me, I'd quickly take up performance engine tuning as a new profession without a second thought. The more gizmos and technology gadgets the system has, the more alluring things become. Lol.
Anyhow, I found a set of 12" factory cooling fans off of a Chrysler Sebring in the shop that has a slightly damaged shroud that somehow meets the specs of the radiator in the Accord so I may install them next weekend to see what happens. I checked them out today and they both pull around 11.5 amps on high speed (they're both dual speed motors which may beneficial later on) and put out quite a bit more airflow than the Shittymoto's (hahaha) I'm using now. The best part about all this was they were FREE. While I have the radiator out again, I'll take the opportunity I have with the access to the exhaust components and try to insulate them better. I'd also like to move the transmission fluid cooler over to the drivers fender well area and have a duct routed to the cooler instead of being in the radiators direct airflow. Also, maybe relocate both high/low tone horns maybe a different section of the bumper cover or radiator support. Aside from the center structure for the core support, this would leave only the FMIC and radiator in the direct path of incoming air. Then lastly, as Brian6speed mentioned, use some sheeting for airflow guidance into the radiator as well. I think that after doing this things PLUS drilling the holes in the bumper cover, I would hopefully resolve this issue once and for all. Man, that would sure be nice....
I also noticed it looks like you have hood propped up at rear. That will only really work at expelling heat when the car is sitting still.
That area by windshield is a high pressure zone. At speed you will be sucking that high pressure air into your lower pressure engine bay.
That higher pressure in engine bay will make your radiator and IC work less efficiently and also cause excess drag.
That is why you never see a racecar with its hood propped open, but they always have hood vents. You want the vents in the front half of hood in lower pressure zone.
I would recommend removing hood gap and installing hood vents.
Didn't see this post before but I wondered if that would be the case on the hood spacing. I can see exactly what you're saying by thinking about the natural flow of airflow INTO the engine bay that the cowl induction hood creates and I'm not sure why this wasn't realized previously. But yeah, you're definitely right! There's a problem though and that is that the hood is actually raised due to some pretty extreme clearance issues...by extreme I mean at least 2.50-3.00" or so due to the manifold height. Maybe I could seal off the rear of the hood somehow and if the changes I make in my last post above don't do the trick, consider your recommendation of venting the hood. Hmmm, I dunno. This is a BRAND NEW hood with a pristine paint job man! lol
Didn't see this post before but I wondered if that would be the case on the hood spacing. I can see exactly what you're saying by thinking about the natural flow of airflow INTO the engine bay that the cowl induction hood creates and I'm not sure why this wasn't realized previously. But yeah, you're definitely right! There's a problem though and that is that the hood is actually raised due to some pretty extreme clearance issues...by extreme I mean at least 2.50-3.00" or so due to the manifold height. Maybe I could seal off the rear of the hood somehow and if the changes I make in my last post above don't do the trick, consider your recommendation of venting the hood. Hmmm, I dunno. This is a BRAND NEW hood with a pristine paint job man! lol
Ah didn't realize you did it for clearance. Is that 2.5-3" with the 3.7 magnesium IM?
I understand your feeling about hacking up hood, had same feeling.
Maybe get a second hood? You could gut back skeleton to get more clearance, but probably isn't enough. Hood bulge is another option.
Could try a piece of weatherstrip. On the CL there is a piece attached to windshield cowl near back of hood to seal gap when hood is closed.
I think the clearance issue has to do with his Overkill thermal manifold spacer.
Says the man with 46 grounding points in his engine bay! jk
I've learned to overkill on this car through trial and error. When your number one enemy is heat, you build your defenses. This 1" Teflon spacer is doing more than its fair share in defending this engine against heat. Just tonight, I logged just three degrees over ambient temps for my IAT at exactly 7.9lbs of boost. That's the lowest difference I've seen yet in running boost on this motor considering all factors. Loving that spacer!
Originally Posted by brian6speed
In that case just ditch that spacer. I know you might be partial to it from work put in though.
You know it.
Originally Posted by brian6speed
Could try a piece of weatherstrip. On the CL there is a piece attached to windshield cowl near back of hood to seal gap when hood is closed.
I thought this out a little further today and I'm not so sure sealing the rear of the hood would resolve anything as my problem isn't at higher vehicle speeds as there's plenty of airflow across the radiator. My problem happens ONLY at slower speeds or idling after hard runs. Sealing the hood gap would mainly increase the radiators effectiveness at higher engine speeds. I need increased airflow at times when the vehicles aero have very little or even no affects at all. Having said this, it's doubtful this would help my current problem. I think the hood being spaced in the rear actually helps my situation by allowing natural heat convection rising from the hood to assist the cooling system by encouraging better airflow at slow speeds or idle. Just out of curiosity, I'll add some streamers at the cowl and watch them to see what's really happening at this area of the hood just to gain some solid data and report back.
For now, I'm probably going to just try swapping out the cooling fans with better/higher flowing fans and insulating the two exhaust pipes.
Already tested aero with wool tufts on my CL with cowl removed. The tufts got sucked into engine bay. You can try it out also.
There is an RX7 I autocross with. Between runs he hooks a leaf blower up to the front of his car for cooling. Rather funny. He uses same blower to clean parking lots for us.
Recorded a short little video tonight. This is running at around 5lbs and if you listen at the end of the run, you can hear some of the wicked ass overrun I've tuned into her....disregard the squeaky ass door! Lol
Given that you're one of the few people that could pull it off if it were possible:
Here's the rear subframe from your car
Here's the subframe from a second generation RL
And here's what we know the rear subframe to contain...
If the subframe would fit the body of the Accord (and likewise, our CLs), then you'd need to figure out how to incorporate the SH computer with a standalone that can control it.
flexer, I was the one that emailed you about the rear subframe dimensions. I haven't responded because I haven't been in the same town as my car for a little while now.
But you need to get off of here and get back to updating your build blog! I've checked it daily for the past 3 weeks with no updates! I'm dying over here!
Given that you're one of the few people that could pull it off if it were possible:...
Here's the rear subframe from your car...
Here's the subframe from a second generation RL...
And here's what we know the rear subframe to contain...
If the subframe would fit the body of the Accord (and likewise, our CLs), then you'd need to figure out how to incorporate the SH computer with a standalone that can control it.
Not trying to come across the wrong way but what exactly was the question to your post or were you making a point?
Either way, it looks interesting!
Originally Posted by brian6speed
If I could convert my car to awd by just snapping my fingers, I still would not do it. Awd Acura's are boring to drive.
If you consider "boring" to be the same as predictable than I will agree. Both 2g MDX's I've owned have been quite the pleasure in regards to driving experience. If you're looking for a performance enhancer from the AWD system, it's definitely there by means of the torque vectoring which in my opinion is second to none. The cornering abilities my 2010 MDX carries far exceeds my Accord (which has numerous suspension/steering enhancing mods) hands down. Several months back, an ECM evap related code was causing my check engine light to illuminate and when this happens, it deactivated my SHAWD system while driving. When the SHAWD system was deactivated, the immediate difference felt would require a completely different style of driving to ensure stability around corners and traction related issues. And regarding traction related issues, the SHAWD system does an excellent job at putting ALL power to the ground. Even when running a 100-shot of nitrous, this thing did an excellent job at ensuring maximum traction.
Sorry, I'm rather partial to Honda's SHAWD system and could talk highly of it all day long. Lol
Admittedly, it would be nice to have a 6MT mated to the SHAWD setup as from the 4g TL 3.7 in my Accord just for the cornering improvements alone! I know Flexer is aware that the SHAWD does not possess a true LSD differential front or rear. But I assure you, one would never be able to tell if another benefit you're after is power to the ground.
And yeah Flexer, get us some updates already. Geez!
Not trying to come across the wrong way but what exactly was the question to your post or were you making a point?
Either way, it looks interesting!
No question. With the wiring involved and integration into the standalone that flexer is dealing with in order to control the SH-AWD computer, it just made me think of some of the tasks you've done integrating 3rd gen TL components into your car. It was something I figured you could handle if you had to.
Not trying to come across the wrong way but what exactly was the question to your post or were you making a point?
Either way, it looks interesting!
If you consider "boring" to be the same as predictable than I will agree. Both 2g MDX's I've owned have been quite the pleasure in regards to driving experience. If you're looking for a performance enhancer from the AWD system, it's definitely there by means of the torque vectoring which in my opinion is second to none. The cornering abilities my 2010 MDX carries far exceeds my Accord (which has numerous suspension/steering enhancing mods) hands down. Several months back, an ECM evap related code was causing my check engine light to illuminate and when this happens, it deactivated my SHAWD system while driving. When the SHAWD system was deactivated, the immediate difference felt would require a completely different style of driving to ensure stability around corners and traction related issues. And regarding traction related issues, the SHAWD system does an excellent job at putting ALL power to the ground. Even when running a 100-shot of nitrous, this thing did an excellent job at ensuring maximum traction.
Sorry, I'm rather partial to Honda's SHAWD system and could talk highly of it all day long. Lol
Admittedly, it would be nice to have a 6MT mated to the SHAWD setup as from the 4g TL 3.7 in my Accord just for the cornering improvements alone! I know Flexer is aware that the SHAWD does not possess a true LSD differential front or rear. But I assure you, one would never be able to tell if another benefit you're after is power to the ground.
And yeah Flexer, get us some updates already. Geez!
About a month ago my rear speed sensor had to be replaced & my SH-AWD was deactivated since there was an ABS malfunction. For those 3 days without SH-AWD the car wasn't even enjoyable to drive, didn't help that it was snowing but it just wasn't the same car.
I just don't see how SH-AWD is boring. Sure the car isn't a beast power wise but with a nice set of summer tires, RPM and some twisties I've surprised some folks & I haven't been bored yet
Been trying the work out a good filtration tubing route which proved very difficult due to the space (or lack of) I had to work with in front of the turbo. Had to buy a 120-degree 4" silicone hose to get things started in the right direction. This actually worked out pretty good. It pointed the route straight towards my fender well which I'll now be required to cut a large enough opening into to drop my filter into. This, however, will be more than worth the effort as it should bring my IAT's down even further. Not that they've been high but I know that the hotter months will be more than challenging for this turbo setup and every little thing I can do to offset the heat will be beneficial. Here's a few photos of the "situation"....
The bend was so extreme that I had to source a 4" 120-degree bend silicone hose to make the turn.
Then I had to hack one side of the tube (pre-bend) to fit it against the turbo inlet.
This photo and the next shows the extremity of the angle I had to work with. I wasn't really sure I'd have the necessary clearance to attach the hose but it worked perfectly. Here's a close up shot and then one from a little further back.
So far, this is where I've ended. The reason being is the outlet of the silicone tube literally stares right into the inner fender panel but luckily it's a section that's made from flat, thin sheet and should be easily manageable using a plasma torch to make a large enough opening to accommodate a 4" section of aluminum tubing. This of course will then be connected to a filter of some sort on the other side and then cold air ducted from the bumper with a water trap of some sort to keep the filter nice and dry.
While it was removed, I went ahead and added some reflective heat tape to the bottom half of the charge tubing which meets the throttle body since it was fairly close to the turbine and other misc hot-side tubing.
Ordered a new thermal insulation jacket for the rear turbo manifold of which come from the rear cylinder head over to the turbo flange. Because it travels behind the engine near very heat sensitive components such as the engine harness, heater hose, APP sensor, etc, I decided it would be best to ensure nothing is at risk during those lovely mad boost moments I so frequently enjoy having. This thing was custom made and cost somebody (Not me! I paid $80 for it!) a LOT of money. It can withstand up to 1500 degrees and that's continuous....not max. Took several shots of it for everyone to see. It was made by a company called Thermal Structures of whom makes many custom thermal shielding/insulation products for the US government. I got hella lucky and found this one for dirt cheap brand new in its original packaging.
My last exhibit is another exhaust insulation sleeve made from basalt (aka lava rock) which is what the DEI Titanium wrap is pretty much made from except this stuff is formed using a much better process that gives the material a stronger bond and form then what DEI uses. It's quite capable of handling a continuous 1800 degrees.
So with the addition of the insulators on the exhaust and cold air intake setup for the turbo inlet, detonation should be kept at bay once the boost levels are raised. I've made a decision to begin a boost ready bottom end using all forged internals now that I've got my tuning skills down to ensure maximum safety and reliability to the investment. As some of you may have read, the addition of the turbo setup brought its share of cooling related issues but after making some crafty tweaks through FlashPro things have been greatly improved. I richened the AFR's, lowered the temp at which the cooling fans are kicked on, and increased idle speed from 680 to 770 rpm's. Believe it or not, the increased idle speed made one of the biggest improvements. This is because I noticed that at idle the system voltage was dropping down to as low as 10.5 volts which was greatly lowering the fan speeds and therefore airflow across the radiator. This compensation made sense as I have the UR underdrive crank pulley which is effectively lowering the alternators rotational speed and this of course lowers its charging threshold (speed at which the alternator produces a voltage above the battery's own). Things have been well since then but I'm more or less prepping the entire platform for increased boost in as many aspects as possible. As I've previously mentioned, I'm not just interested in making great power from the car. I want to make sure that the power levels are equally matched with the utmost worry free reliability. I am not the sort of person that likes to compromise one for the other. That's why you see me going to such extremes on things like heat management. But it's also everywhere else too. I change the oil before it has a chance to darken and stain my crankcase. Datalogging is an everlasting process anytime the ignition is turned on so that any problem (wether big or small) can be quickly analyzed and resolved without giving it time to become bigger or create other issues. AFR gauges are used on both banks and consistently monitored. I have audible alarms that alert me if any preselected ECM inputs are out of a customized and specific range.
By no means am I saying the engine would never be harmed or completely damaged while being boosted but at least I've done everything in my power to try and avoid it from happening.
None of that thermal stuff will work on your car but you could send it to Utah it will fit my K24 just fine,
You're heat control is amazing I think you have spent a small fortune on it but so worth it.
(Wanted J35A8 short block no rods pistons or oil pan needed PM UTAH Type-S )
Don't wanna hijack thread with long post explaining myself. It is impossible to explain to someone without actual track and autocross experience driving proper fwd honda and a shawd one.
Torque vectoring is nice, but you exaggerate it. My Focus ST has Torque Vectoring but no LSD. My CL has LSD but no Torque Vectoring.
On a 50-60 second course my CL is 4-6 seconds faster than my Focus. My CL with LSD puts power down amazingly and has better turn in than Focus. My Focus with only Torque Vectoring has much more trouble putting power down and ends up spinning one wheel. Torque Vectoring also overheats and eats up brakes on race tracks.
Want to install LSD in Focus and see how it does with both. Hopefully with LSD the Torque Vectoring won't have to over-work brakes.
I plan on buying new fwd LSD Civic Type R as my next daily over the over-hyped Focus RS with Torque Vectoring but no LSD's.
I'd prefer both TV and LSD, but if I had to choose one it would be LSD.
Don't wanna hijack thread with long post explaining myself. It is impossible to explain to someone without actual track and autocross experience driving proper fwd honda and a shawd one.
Torque vectoring is nice, but you exaggerate it. My Focus ST has Torque Vectoring but no LSD. My CL has LSD but no Torque Vectoring.
On a 50-60 second course my CL is 4-6 seconds faster than my Focus. My CL with LSD puts power down amazingly and has better turn in than Focus. My Focus with only Torque Vectoring has much more trouble putting power down and ends up spinning one wheel. Torque Vectoring also overheats and eats up brakes on race tracks.
Want to install LSD in Focus and see how it does with both. Hopefully with LSD the Torque Vectoring won't have to over-work brakes.
I plan on buying new fwd LSD Civic Type R as my next daily over the over-hyped Focus RS with Torque Vectoring but no LSD's.
I'd prefer both TV and LSD, but if I had to choose one it would be LSD.
So, your judging Hondas system by the issues with Fords system? Lol.
Hondas SH-AWD is the best of the best. It does not vector by braking, it uses planetary gearsets and electromagnetic clutch packs. It not only vectors side to side but, front to back as well. Go watch some videos explaining how it works and watch some of the new NSX as well. It's one of the best handling cars you can buy. Go test drive a 4g TL and take it on some twisties, it will put your CL to shame. I drove an automatic J37 TL and it hooked in turns that my Civic with full suspension (coilovers, sway bars, strut bars) could only dream of. As soon as it would even think about losing grip it would send power to the opposing wheel and correct, its a brilliant system.
So, your judging Hondas system by the issues with Fords system? Lol.
Hondas SH-AWD is the best of the best. It does not vector by braking, it uses planetary gearsets and electromagnetic clutch packs. It not only vectors side to side but, front to back as well. Go watch some videos explaining how it works and watch some of the new NSX as well. It's one of the best handling cars you can buy. Go test drive a 4g TL and take it on some twisties, it will put your CL to shame. I drove an automatic J37 TL and it hooked in turns that my Civic with full suspension (coilovers, sway bars, strut bars) could only dream of. As soon as it would even think about losing grip it would send power to the opposing wheel and correct, its a brilliant system.
I know how systems work. Congrats on replying to a post 2 months old.
I'll bet anyone with awd acura $10,000 they can't beat my fwd CL at autocross. Since awd system is so great it is a free win for any awd car.
Will be waiting for PM'S from people, but won't hold my breath.
The NSX and TL you refer to both understeer at limit. They are built for people who can't drive. New NSX is not one of the best handling cars, not even close.
Lol at 4g TL cornering better than my CL. Have had 4g TL at autocross and it isn't even close. On a 50 second course my car is over 6 seconds faster. Even my fwd Focus ST on stock tires is faster.
How much experience do you have autocross in or tracking fwd or awd acuras? I bet answer is none. Typical spec sheet racer.
You gonna tell me I can't beat porsche carreras, m3s, rx8s, lotus Elise and exiges, c7 vettes, boxsters, caymans, wrx sti's, etc. Have beat them all, and these aren't stock cars.
Last edited by brian6speed; 04-30-2016 at 01:23 PM.
If Acura's AWD system is so great then why don't the awd track cars use it on the acura's like in Pirelli World Challenge. They remove oem awd and run a different system.
Funny you know that a 4g TL will put my car to shame when you know nothing about my car or how it drives.
Same typical anti-fwd semantics everywhere you go. Ppl hear Jeremy Clarkson say FWD sucks and take it as gospel.
Just shows you are a paper spec racer.
Last edited by brian6speed; 04-30-2016 at 01:31 PM.
I've seen your autocross videos, not that impressive.
Put everything back into your car and return it to stock drivetrain as well and I guarantee you that a stock 4G TL SH-AWD 6 speed will murder you with a competent driver.
Question for you, J series guru Robert
I see you used J37a4 heads on a J35 block. What cam gear, sensor, and backing plate did you use? Im using the J37 backing plate with J35a8 cam sensor and gear, the car wont stay running and throws codes for misfire on all cylinders. Can you help me get my daily running??
is it possible to drop j35a8 head and cams into honda odyssey j35a6 and just drive without issues?
i've been playwith with the idea. need new valve seals , lap the valves etc, timing belt on my oddy. might as well do j35a8 heads.
I know how systems work. Congrats on replying to a post 2 months old.
I'll bet anyone with awd acura $10,000 they can't beat my fwd CL at autocross. Since awd system is so great it is a free win for any awd car.
Will be waiting for PM'S from people, but won't hold my breath.
The NSX and TL you refer to both understeer at limit. They are built for people who can't drive. New NSX is not one of the best handling cars, not even close.
Lol at 4g TL cornering better than my CL. Have had 4g TL at autocross and it isn't even close. On a 50 second course my car is over 6 seconds faster. Even my fwd Focus ST on stock tires is faster.
How much experience do you have autocross in or tracking fwd or awd acuras? I bet answer is none. Typical spec sheet racer.
You gonna tell me I can't beat porsche carreras, m3s, rx8s, lotus Elise and exiges, c7 vettes, boxsters, caymans, wrx sti's, etc. Have beat them all, and these aren't stock cars.
I’m in on that action but let’s go for a little track time instead of autoX After getting the suspension setup on the 4g right with the redone front double wishbone the AWD is wicked. CL is smaller so more suited to cones but I guarantee the cornering G’s pulled with the 4g will be a huge advantage
02-11-2016, 09:27 PM
While I have the radiator out again, I'll take the opportunity I have with the access to the exhaust components and try to insulate them better. I'd also like to move the transmission fluid cooler over to the drivers fender well area and have a duct routed to the cooler instead of being in the radiators direct airflow. Also, maybe relocate both high/low tone horns maybe a different section of the bumper cover or radiator support. Aside from the center structure for the core support, this would leave only the FMIC and radiator in the direct path of incoming air. Then lastly, as Brian6speed mentioned, use some sheeting for airflow guidance into the radiator as well. I think that after doing this things PLUS drilling the holes in the bumper cover, I would hopefully resolve this issue once and for all. Man, that would sure be nice....
jk
but you could send it to Utah it will fit my K24 just fine,
